Dispatch

Kenway

Member
The focus of this skill suggestion will be the Brigand’s combat Art “Dispatch” and the utility it fails to provide. Dispatch was once the Brigand’s class defining CA and it became buried and ignored as other classes drew more attention for whatever reasons.

“Dispatch" in its current state is not applying an effective debuff. It has not been scaled up (multiplied) over time, to match the resists on current mobs. The overall resist levels that Dispatch would need to impact would need to approach the millions and even billions for it to be truly effective in todays’ game. Back in the day (KoS / EoF era) “dispatch” would take a mob all the way down to zero resists. Back then, Brigands were a key class to have in a raid or group because it brought tremendous utility. I remember when it was value added to have a well timed "Dispatch" macro in place that would signal coordination with other classes to use their hardest hitting attacks for when the mob had no resists. That coordination took skill which in turn was rewarded by killing the mob faster, (Uber DPS while Dispatch was running). Timely "dispatch" spike DPS was especially useful on fights where there was only a short time to DPS the mob between joust calls. Remember when you only had a few seconds to hit certain mobs with “Dispatch” between jousts? The Brigand class had a role to play and for Brigand that role was to debuff the mob so other classes could spike DPS.

The recent Thieves Guild (TG) post-nerf upgrade was close to solving the same issue in that it provided a huge potency boost which in turn mitigated current mob resist levels. If a TG fix is still distasteful, then Dispatch improvement is another way to help Brigands to regain their niche.
 
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Chath

Active member
I think it'd probably feel more satisfying for the combat mitigation value of dispatch to be incredibly high, as it's sort of the iconic core ability for brigands. Personally I don't think even a value of 200k would be particularly unreasonable - or even make it some percentage of the mob's combat mit so it always scales, though that introduces issues with players never wanting to upgrade over higher tier older versions. Back when we were fighting bonecleaver, we had to debuff him by large amounts as part of the fight and it was a fairly subtle effect: dispatch's combat mit debuff being huge would make it viscerally satisfying/fun and incentivize the coordination that was mentioned above, which was a great element. A lot of older players who have always played brigands still announce dispatch simply out of rote and because it'd feel really bad to admit that it doesn't matter anymore. Making it matter again would feel really great.
 

Perciful

New member
Dispatch VIII at celestial level has the following debuff stats without AA boost:
Decreases Combat Mitigation of target by 2,321.8
Decreases Mitigation of target vs all damage by 55,829.

I think increasing mitigation values of Dispatch is a great suggestion, but please understand that there are 2 mitigation components within the CA. I recommend that both values mentioned above be increased appropriately….. and please ensure that the “all damage“ component is actually working.

The “Dispatch Defense” AA in the Shadows tree also adds an additional combat mitigation reduction which translates to an additional 6,723.1. That is another component that could receive an upgrade.
 

Auxic

Member
Brigand dispatch could use an increase in combat mit, and the increase should be considered more around what % is a reasonable decrease on the mob that impacts the need of a brigand in raids. It would be good to understand what a reasonable decrease should look like.

As of right now
A T1 Raid in Zimara is 837,102 CM (Attached)
A T4 Raid Mob is 897,182 CM (Attached)

At Ancient, dispatch has a total of 8428.6 CM with AA and 2265.7 without AA.

When it is calculated Dispatch gives only a 0.01% debuff at Ancient to a T1 mob, Even less vs a T4.

Below would be a draft of better scaling for todays content? Remember brigs have other CM abilities such as Mug, and Rake to be added, and does not need to be a crazy number. When added a Brigand will apply about a 3% total debuff if all abilities are running with the below example.

Quick Suggestion: Dispatch ( Combat Ability + AA) = Total Percent Debuff.

Using the current base value of 2265.7, as the increment, below are leveling scales of the ability and mobs debuff percentage applied by each. Includes the T1 and T4 Raid mobs. What do you think?

----------------------------------------
..VS a T1 Raid Mob - 837,102CM - Ranges from 1% - 2.8% CM Debuff

Apprentice: Percent Debuff 0.01%
CA: 2265.7 + 6162.9 = 8428.6 (Currently)

Journeyman: Percent Debuff 0.0128%
CA: 4531.4 + 6162.9 = 10,694.3

Expert: Percent Debuff 0.0155%
CA: 6797.1 + 6162.9 = 12,960

Master: Percent Debuff 0.0182%
CA: 9062.8 + 6162.9 = 15,225.7

Grandmaster: Percent Debuff 0.021%
CA: 11,328.5 + 6162.9 = 17,491.4

Ancient: Percent Debuff 0.0256%
CA: 15,325.9 + 6162.9 = 22,022.8

Celestial: Percent Debuff 0.0284%
CA: 17,591.6 + 6162.9 = 23,754.5
--------------------------------------------
..VS a T4 Raid Mob 897,182CM - Ranges 0.0094% - 0.0265% CM Debuff

Apprentice: Percent Debuff 0.0094%
CA: 2265.7 + 6162.9 = 8428.6 (Currently)

Journeyman: Percent Debuff 0.0119%
CA: 4531.4 + 6162.9 = 10,694.3

Expert: Percent Debuff 0.0144%
CA: 6797.1 + 6162.9 = 12,960

Master: Percent Debuff 0.0197%
CA: 9062.8 + 6162.9 = 15,225.7

Grandmaster: Percent Debuff 0.0195%
CA: 11,328.5 + 6162.9 = 17,491.4

Ancient: Percent Debuff 0.0245%
CA: 15,325.9 + 6162.9 = 22,022.8

Celestial: Percent Debuff 0.0265%
CA: 17,591.6 + 6162.9 = 23,754.5
 

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Vlkodlak

Active member
Dispatch unfortunately fell way behind the curve with the immense increase in the amount of CM the mobs have compared to what the CA was able to deliver. I would love to see Dispatch converted over to a static 3%-5% straight mit debuff to allow it to situational to the encounter and also allow it to grow as we continue to level.
 

Kenway

Member
Brigand dispatch could use an increase in combat mit, and the increase should be considered more around what % is a reasonable decrease on the mob that impacts the need of a brigand in raids. It would be good to understand what a reasonable decrease should look like.

As of right now
A T1 Raid in Zimara is 837,102 CM (Attached)
A T4 Raid Mob is 897,182 CM (Attached)

At Ancient, dispatch has a total of 8428.6 CM with AA and 2265.7 without AA.

When it is calculated Dispatch gives only a 0.01% debuff at Ancient to a T1 mob, Even less vs a T4.

Below would be a draft of better scaling for todays content? Remember brigs have other CM abilities such as Mug, and Rake to be added, and does not need to be a crazy number. When added a Brigand will apply about a 3% total debuff if all abilities are running with the below example.

Quick Suggestion: Dispatch ( Combat Ability + AA) = Total Percent Debuff.

Using the current base value of 2265.7, as the increment, below are leveling scales of the ability and mobs debuff percentage applied by each. Includes the T1 and T4 Raid mobs. What do you think?

----------------------------------------
..VS a T1 Raid Mob - 837,102CM - Ranges from 1% - 2.8% CM Debuff

Apprentice: Percent Debuff 0.01%
CA: 2265.7 + 6162.9 = 8428.6 (Currently)

Journeyman: Percent Debuff 0.0128%
CA: 4531.4 + 6162.9 = 10,694.3

Expert: Percent Debuff 0.0155%
CA: 6797.1 + 6162.9 = 12,960

Master: Percent Debuff 0.0182%
CA: 9062.8 + 6162.9 = 15,225.7

Grandmaster: Percent Debuff 0.021%
CA: 11,328.5 + 6162.9 = 17,491.4

Ancient: Percent Debuff 0.0256%
CA: 15,325.9 + 6162.9 = 22,022.8

Celestial: Percent Debuff 0.0284%
CA: 17,591.6 + 6162.9 = 23,754.5
--------------------------------------------
..VS a T4 Raid Mob 897,182CM - Ranges 0.0094% - 0.0265% CM Debuff

Apprentice: Percent Debuff 0.0094%
CA: 2265.7 + 6162.9 = 8428.6 (Currently)

Journeyman: Percent Debuff 0.0119%
CA: 4531.4 + 6162.9 = 10,694.3

Expert: Percent Debuff 0.0144%
CA: 6797.1 + 6162.9 = 12,960

Master: Percent Debuff 0.0197%
CA: 9062.8 + 6162.9 = 15,225.7

Grandmaster: Percent Debuff 0.0195%
CA: 11,328.5 + 6162.9 = 17,491.4

Ancient: Percent Debuff 0.0245%
CA: 15,325.9 + 6162.9 = 22,022.8

Celestial: Percent Debuff 0.0265%
CA: 17,591.6 + 6162.9 = 23,754.5
Thank-You Auxic for doing the work on the data. If we could all agree on a middle ground percentage range, from which the data could be refined, we may be getting close. Would the 3-5% work? 5-10%?

What about the “All Damage” component of the CA? Are we asking to leave that the way it is?
 

Xavion

Active member
all damage i think is just regular physical armor mit the way i understand mit to work is
  • physical mitigation (armor for mobs)
  • resists mitigation (nox ele arc etc)
  • combat mitigation (the 800k one)
So i think the all damage thing is resists and armor mit since its olden times debuff where combat mit didn't exist
 

Auxic

Member
Thank-You Auxic for doing the work on the data. If we could all agree on a middle ground percentage range, from which the data could be refined, we may be getting close. Would the 3-5% work? 5-10%?

What about the “All Damage” component of the CA? Are we asking to leave that the way it is?
The numbers provided are a total of less than 3%. If you add another 2265.7cm to dispatch on each rank, it will increase the current values by approx .005% to a T1, .0045 to a T4. I believe. That is if we are looking for a more aggressive debuff for specifically combat mit.
 

Auxic

Member
all damage i think is just regular physical armor mit the way i understand mit to work is
  • physical mitigation (armor for mobs)
  • resists mitigation (nox ele arc etc)
  • combat mitigation (the 800k one)
So i think the all damage thing is resists and armor mit since its olden times debuff where combat mit didn't exist
It makes me wonder what debilitate does with its 29k. It use to be the 2nd best skill.
 

Auxic

Member
Thank-You Auxic for doing the work on the data. If we could all agree on a middle ground percentage range, from which the data could be refined, we may be getting close. Would the 3-5% work? 5-10%?

What about the “All Damage” component of the CA? Are we asking to leave that the way it is?
I would suggest increasing Rake, Mug and add to debilitating. Perhaps upto an additional 2% on debilitate, and maybe 1.5% on Rake. Mug could be maybe 2-3%. Therefore the Brigand is focused on maintaining having the mob debuffed, and not relying on a single ability. I agree Dispatch should be the heavier hit of them all. Realistically you will reach about your 7/9% if you are focused enough on cycling the abilities. Just my thought.
 

Xavion

Active member
i think the biggest problem is everyones too scared to make unique class defining abilities others don't get like having a brig be only one who can do cmit % reduction and honestly they need to add back the specif unique factor of class only debuffs n buffs and abilities so there is more diversity amongst all the classes
 

Xavion

Active member
just thought of something really unique for brigand for dispatch what if they were the class that increased the amount of damage per hit a named could take? EX: atm we have max hit on a named is caped by 5%? max hp of the named what if dispatch increased this by a certain amount? could even do it based on named classification.
  • heroic named increases max hit damage by 2.5% to 5%(ancient)
  • raid named increase max hit damage by 1% - 2.5%(ancient)
 

Chath

Active member
just thought of something really unique for brigand for dispatch what if they were the class that increased the amount of damage per hit a named could take? EX: atm we have max hit on a named is caped by 5%? max hp of the named what if dispatch increased this by a certain amount? could even do it based on named classification.
  • heroic named increases max hit damage by 2.5% to 5%(ancient)
  • raid named increase max hit damage by 1% - 2.5%(ancient)
While that's an interesting additional feature, it'd have no practical effect on many regular situations like normal groups where brigands are really weak right now because weaker groups would never hit those threshold values. I'd much rather see something like dispatch reduce combat mitigation on a mob by 10%, which assuming there's no weird debuff cap strangeness going on would be very broadly applicable to everyone.

I'd really like brigands to be defined by debuffs that feel impactful enough that timing around them being in actually has a point to it - we did that in the olden days, and it'd be great to see it matter again.
 

Caith

Active member
Staff member
Developer
Brigand dispatch could use an increase in combat mit, and the increase should be considered more around what % is a reasonable decrease on the mob that impacts the need of a brigand in raids. It would be good to understand what a reasonable decrease should look like.

As of right now
A T1 Raid in Zimara is 837,102 CM (Attached)
A T4 Raid Mob is 897,182 CM (Attached)

At Ancient, dispatch has a total of 8428.6 CM with AA and 2265.7 without AA.

When it is calculated Dispatch gives only a 0.01% debuff at Ancient to a T1 mob, Even less vs a T4.

Below would be a draft of better scaling for todays content? Remember brigs have other CM abilities such as Mug, and Rake to be added, and does not need to be a crazy number. When added a Brigand will apply about a 3% total debuff if all abilities are running with the below example.

Quick Suggestion: Dispatch ( Combat Ability + AA) = Total Percent Debuff.

Using the current base value of 2265.7, as the increment, below are leveling scales of the ability and mobs debuff percentage applied by each. Includes the T1 and T4 Raid mobs. What do you think?

----------------------------------------
..VS a T1 Raid Mob - 837,102CM - Ranges from 1% - 2.8% CM Debuff

Apprentice: Percent Debuff 0.01%
CA: 2265.7 + 6162.9 = 8428.6 (Currently)

Journeyman: Percent Debuff 0.0128%
CA: 4531.4 + 6162.9 = 10,694.3

Expert: Percent Debuff 0.0155%
CA: 6797.1 + 6162.9 = 12,960

Master: Percent Debuff 0.0182%
CA: 9062.8 + 6162.9 = 15,225.7

Grandmaster: Percent Debuff 0.021%
CA: 11,328.5 + 6162.9 = 17,491.4

Ancient: Percent Debuff 0.0256%
CA: 15,325.9 + 6162.9 = 22,022.8

Celestial: Percent Debuff 0.0284%
CA: 17,591.6 + 6162.9 = 23,754.5
--------------------------------------------
..VS a T4 Raid Mob 897,182CM - Ranges 0.0094% - 0.0265% CM Debuff

Apprentice: Percent Debuff 0.0094%
CA: 2265.7 + 6162.9 = 8428.6 (Currently)

Journeyman: Percent Debuff 0.0119%
CA: 4531.4 + 6162.9 = 10,694.3

Expert: Percent Debuff 0.0144%
CA: 6797.1 + 6162.9 = 12,960

Master: Percent Debuff 0.0197%
CA: 9062.8 + 6162.9 = 15,225.7

Grandmaster: Percent Debuff 0.0195%
CA: 11,328.5 + 6162.9 = 17,491.4

Ancient: Percent Debuff 0.0245%
CA: 15,325.9 + 6162.9 = 22,022.8

Celestial: Percent Debuff 0.0265%
CA: 17,591.6 + 6162.9 = 23,754.5

This isn't quite how tier mults work, a spell increases based off tier by the following multipliers.

Apprentice
0.9​
Journeyman
1.1​
Adept
1.2​
Expert
1.54​
Master
1.6​
Grandmaster
1.68​
Ancient
2.02​
Celestial
2.07​

They used to be a little less...janky, before 4 tiers were removed from the game.
 

Chath

Active member
There will never, ever, be an effect that does a flat reduction to combat mitigation.
If that's out of bounds, would equivalent numerical values to 10% of current tier combat mitigation be out also, or is it more you just don't want to go down the path of percentage debuffs to the stat? For example, if players felt 89k combat mit on dispatch sounded right, would that get overruled as being absurd? If so, what would be acceptable value to get an impact where there's a noticeable damage spike when dispatch is applied?
 

Caith

Active member
Staff member
Developer
To move this request onto the next phase, an updated request needs to be posted with the specific requested change, the numbers in Auxic's post are mostly fine for that, other then they do not have a starting point that functions with how tier mults work in the game. If the posted number for the celestial reduction is the amount requested, these are the numbers.

Using an average of current H3 player stats for the last day and removing the randomization from Battery and Assault, the ability did 213,682,097,817 damage against the combat mitigation of an h3 basepop.

With the current Dispatch at Expert with no changes, the damage from B&A climbs to 308,066,937,902, an increase of more then 44% for each ability that hits while Dispatch is running. With the current Dispatch at Celestial with no changes, the damage from B&A climbs to 311,167,650,194, an increase of more then 45% for each ability that hits while Dispatch is running. With the suggested Dispatch at Expert with no changes, the damage from B&A climbs to 386,274,031,298, an increase of more then 80% for each ability that hits while Dispatch is running. With the suggested Dispatch at Celestial with no changes, the damage from B&A climbs to 419,168,864,648, an increase of more then 96% for each ability that hits while Dispatch is running.
 

Caith

Active member
Staff member
Developer
If that's out of bounds, would equivalent numerical values to 10% of current tier combat mitigation be out also, or is it more you just don't want to go down the path of percentage debuffs to the stat? For example, if players felt 89k combat mit on dispatch sounded right, would that get overruled as being absurd? If so, what would be acceptable value to get an impact where there's a noticeable damage spike when dispatch is applied?

Percentage buffs to a stat are not something we are going to be entertaining for the most part. "This year we have 25% increase to our stat/decrease to mob stat, next year we have a 33.5% increase/decrease, the year after 44.89%", etc etc, before even factoring in tier multipliers or other effect that increase these effects.
 
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