Kill XP too high for mobs that are too weak

M

Maergoth

Active member
Honestly all the mobs in antonica feel very, very squishy. It's not just the busted poison procs either.
The snakes, for example, have 1000 hp even (Level 9 ^^^)
The solo mobs in The Caves were over 800. Even if they're a level or two higher, the XP for the heroics are significantly higher.
Also the respawns across the board seem aggressively too fast
 

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M

Maergoth

Active member
Heroics in general are providing up to 3% XP per kill. This was *NEVER* more than 1.5% without Vitality, so if the goal is classic xp gain, we're well beyond that. Many of the overland mobs seem to be out of tune for difficulty and XP gain.
 
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M

Maergoth

Active member
Did some more testing:
At level 6 with a full group, a single orange solo mob was giving 2.2% per kill without vitality.
Need to stress that Good XP available for level 10-20 from posts in the 2006 era was 1-1.5% per heroic

We're currently triple that, on average, with yellow/orange heroics providing 3%.

Maergoth: 16.1%
Maergoth: 18.3%
Maergoth: 2.2% from a single orange solo mob
Maergoth: 20.2%
Maergoth: 22.6%
Add XP pots on top of this and this is honestly just too fast.

Quest XP should be doubled (to compensate for no exploration XP, preventing dead zones while progressing through quest lines in a new area)
Combat XP should be cut by a third
Collection XP should be cut by a third
 
L

Liberal

Member
XP feels exactly the same as it did on Fallen Gate, and that was a week long 12+ hour a day slog fest to hit 50, with focus effects, pots, and all the modern spell changes/itemization changes.

I think making any brash adjustments based on leveling to level 12 would be a bad idea. Especially considering the average player will not know to go to antonica and grind these, or have the speed this group probably had.

The lower tiers shouldn't be thirty hour grinds to hit 20 that turns away players, not only because it's bad design - but also because it wasn't this hard in 2006. Maybe in 2004. Lets wait until we hit the 25+ range and adjust from there if the pace is still too fast.
 
M

Maergoth

Active member
Liberal said:
XP feels exactly the same as it did on Fallen Gate, and that was a week long 12+ hour a day slog fest to hit 50, with focus effects, pots, and all the modern spell changes/itemization changes.

I think making any brash adjustments based on leveling to level 12 would be a bad idea. Especially considering the average player will not know to go to antonica and grind these, or have the speed this group probably had.

The lower tiers shouldn't be thirty hour grinds to hit 20 that turns away players, not only because it's bad design - but also because it wasn't this hard in 2006. Maybe in 2004. Lets wait until we hit the 25+ range and adjust from there if the pace is still too fast.
Click to expand...

All the evidence about 1% per kill being "good exp" from 10-20 is from 2006. We have solo orange mobs giving 2% in a full group at 9, and heroic encounters giving up to 4%, without vitality. Quests are giving 1.5% and are peanuts by comparison.

You hiding your lack of desire to invest in a character behind "protecting the server population" is very Varsoon of you. You don't need to kill this server to feel good about your last one :)
 
M

Maergoth

Active member
If it slows down aggressively after 20, it could be just fine. But it didn't slow down after 10 -- and historically, it speeds up between 20 and 40. On TLEs, and when the content was Live.
 
L

Liberal

Member
Maergoth said:
All the evidence about 1% per kill being "good exp" from 10-20 is from 2006. We have solo orange mobs giving 2% in a full group at 9, and heroic encounters giving up to 4%, without vitality. Quests are giving 1.5% and are peanuts by comparison.

You hiding your lack of desire to invest in a character behind "protecting the server population" is very Varsoon of you. You don't need to kill this server to feel good about your last one :)
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I am not interested in personal shots.

I have a level 12, unless you're killing different mobs than I am. This is just not true % values. Lets focus on the crux of the issue and not your strawman arguments.
 
N

Nayiin

Member
It would be alot easier to determine the relevancy of things like this if Devs would just come out and say exactly what the target was. Given it's a 6 week beta, it's probably not going to be a highly accurate recreation.
 
M

Maergoth

Active member
1-12 did not seem okay at all, lol.
These are the true % values: Solo mobs are handing out 2% per kill in some cases. Heroic mobs are handing out 4% per kill in some cases. This is not classic. You can argue that it shouldn't be classic, but don't pretend you're not just asking for it to be easier/faster.

If it cuts back dramatically after 20, great. If it doesn't, there's plenty of evidence that it should. And there's still plenty here saying things are off in the current mix.

Here's a leveling guide from 2006 with a bunch of additional context
Click to expand...
Level 25-26 getting 0.4 percent per kill to 0.8 percent per kill
Click to expand...
"Last night myself and a warden, I have leveled with for the last 6 weeks, handed in 'The trials of sir morgan' quest, which con'd yellow to us at lvl29. I received 9%, to his 12%"
Click to expand...

All of this points over and over and over again that xp rates are around triple per kill of what they should be, and quest xp is half to a third of what it should be.
 
Boldac

Boldac

Member
I'm not a fan of nerfing anything before we can really test the higher levels. But I agree with the sentiment. Kill xp as it currently sits needs to be turned down. At the same time, quest (but not collection) xp needs to be dramatically turned up.


Lets put the Quest back in EverQuest.
 
C

Caul Shivers

Member
Liberal said:
XP feels exactly the same as it did on Fallen Gate, and that was a week long 12+ hour a day slog fest to hit 50, with focus effects, pots, and all the modern spell changes/itemization changes.

I think making any brash adjustments based on leveling to level 12 would be a bad idea. Especially considering the average player will not know to go to antonica and grind these, or have the speed this group probably had.

The lower tiers shouldn't be thirty hour grinds to hit 20 that turns away players, not only because it's bad design - but also because it wasn't this hard in 2006. Maybe in 2004. Lets wait until we hit the 25+ range and adjust from there if the pace is still too fast.
Click to expand...
Agreed 100%.
Also, lets not pretend as if lvl 6 gameplay is some peak MMO design. You have like 3 buttons to press, then you wait a bit, then again. Then you wait some more if you're out of resources and not mini-dinged etc.
2004 wasn't meant to mire you down in the single digits for ages either. Getting to 9 and 19 was a "thing" cause of class quests, but other than that, it never felt like a slog. Slow, but not a slog.

Vanilla is very much about the journey.
But that journey was not - and should not be - a swamp where you move at 5% speed and you're stuck in a place forever.
I think at lvl 25+ a player who can commit an evening of gaming to EQ2 will probably get 1-2 levels per day. Not more, at this pace.
So adjusting (or slowing down) xp - when BTW the quest XP is non-existant - based on lvl 6 gameplay would be silly and could potentially backfire.
 
M

Mountbatten

Member
I am probably misremembering, but was XP ever divided between group members? I have a vague recollection of group XP split being removed, but I could well be getting my MMOs mixed up. But I could see how XP would seem too fast if originally it was split between group members.
 
T

Triucia

New member
A lot is depending on the actual aim of the server.

I personaly feel that the XP rate is way too fast. More than double its supposed rate.

I only really remember that back then i was xping 4-6 days in Fallen Gate and Varsoon before i moved on *not even outlvling the zone* . ( thats with 5-10 Hours a day)

On a sidenote--- loot (rarity) and ofc rare harvests feel overtuned too . Loot a little-- Harvest Rares alot overtuned
Loot was kinda no fun at launch.. I saw 1 Fabled item from 1-50 back then
 
C

Caul Shivers

Member
Triucia said:
A lot is depending on the actual aim of the server.

I personaly feel that the XP rate is way too fast. More than double its supposed rate.

I only really remember that back then i was xping 4-6 days in Fallen Gate and Varsoon before i moved on *not even outlvling the zone* . ( thats with 5-10 Hours a day)

On a sidenote--- loot (rarity) and ofc rare harvests feel overtuned too . Loot a little-- Harvest Rares alot overtuned
Loot was kinda no fun at launch.. I saw 1 Fabled item from 1-50 back then
Click to expand...
Judging by the current xp levels (10-12), it will take a "normal" player a month of gaming EVERY EVENING to reach level 50.
And that's only if they grind xp and not do other stuff like harvest, craft or do heritage quests for example.

You think that's too slow? What do people think is the goal here, level 50 in 3 months of gaming EVERY evening?

People would leave in droves if that would be the case. Most people are adults with families now, not sweaty teenagers and 20something that we were 20 years ago.

Not to mention, again, that the combat at early levels is really not that exciting, is it.... 4-5 very slow casting spells etc.
Doing that for hours on end will bore people, regardless of their excitement and good will (and doubly so for alts later).
 
M

Maergoth

Active member
Caul Shivers said:
Judging by the current xp levels (10-12), it will take a "normal" player a month of gaming EVERY EVENING to reach level 50.
And that's only if they grind xp and not do other stuff like harvest, craft or do heritage quests for example.

You think that's too slow? What do people think is the goal here, level 50 in 3 months of gaming EVERY evening?

People would leave in droves if that would be the case. Most people are adults with families now, not sweaty teenagers and 20something that we were 20 years ago.

Not to mention, again, that the combat at early levels is really not that exciting, is it.... 4-5 very slow casting spells etc.
Doing that for hours on end will bore people, regardless of their excitement and good will (and doubly so for alts later).
Click to expand...

The goal is to make it as close to classic as possible, not fabricate scenarios behind the guise of "protecting casual players and Daybreak's bottom line"
I was grouped with two casual players. You know they were also gaining 3-4x more XP per kill than was classic? How do you figure it would take 3 months of playing? And how do you figure that's a problem? The server isn't going to push a new expac every 3 months.
 
C

Caul Shivers

Member
Maergoth said:
The goal is to make it as close to classic as possible, not fabricate scenarios behind the guise of "protecting casual players and Daybreak's bottom line"
I was grouped with two casual players. You know they were also gaining 3-4x more XP per kill than was classic? How do you figure it would take 3 months of playing? And how do you figure that's a problem? The server isn't going to push a new expac every 3 months.
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It's a problem cause it didn't take 3 months at launch. I'm talking 2004 here, not 2006. I don't know about 2006 cause I was in KOS.
I can 100% tell you that in KOS it took less time than in vanilla, just going back and leveling some alts.
We would go into FG level 20 and exit 25.

In vanilla, we were lucky to get 1 or 2 levels a day past 20. We were all horrible noobs, but we also spent hours and hours playing.

Vanilla is 100% about the journey, but if the journey is an unsatisfying slog it will do more harm than good.
Especially if it's overtuned the other way cause a fistful of people want to spend ages at lvl 18.

You're advocating for less xp gains from mobs, slower spawn rates, less xp from collections (which BTW, were ALWAYS absolutely massive and contributed to leveling alts), etc. There's no quest XP as it is.
You think people are interested in grinding every evening to get half a level in 2 hours?
It 100% was NOT like that in vanilla. I know cause I was there. Despite being noobs, shard runs and knowing absolutely nothing about the game or the zones, the XP bar kept moving.
 
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