Damage of Inquisitor combat arts.
- Thread starter Beyoncia
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What is to low though and to what level should it be increased? This forms part of a bigger issue to what dps a class should do, in group/raid dps from a healer/support class is just a bonus and should not push that class into the top 10 parse but solo they need the boost, not sure how you can boost one without the other (maybe needs a buff that is active if the group count is 2 or 1)
Have you actually seen the numbers? Dps classes do 50 trillion +, I do 5 trillion. Most of combat arts do 0.2-1 trillion dps at the best. While just one warden ability does 15 trillion (their combat arts are as bad as ours though).
So yes, adjustments and buffs are needed, to every priest class.
So yes, adjustments and buffs are needed, to every priest class.
But the question is so what that a dps class can do 50 or 100t you are a healer not dps, the warden ability needs to be bought down as it hits to hard. If a top dps does 50t then a priest doing 5t in a raid sounds OK, priests do not need to do dps in raid/group really, asking for massive increases to combat arts to push a priest up the parse is not really needed, asking for changes to abilities to allow priest to better do their jobs of healing (and some buffing is needed) is what we should focus on.
I mean if non t1 dps classes want insane dps increases should t1 dps also be asking for heals/wards as its not fair we are down on the heal parse?
I mean if non t1 dps classes want insane dps increases should t1 dps also be asking for heals/wards as its not fair we are down on the heal parse?
Some T1 dps can heal/ward as well as some priests. But that is not the point. Damage capabilities of most priest classes are very low, I know that people struggle solo, especially at the start of the expansion.
Another thing is, different priests bring different amount of "dps" to the group/raid. Mystics, for example, buff others so much, I would not be surprised if they add like 100 trillion of dps to the raid, if not more! Inqusitor brings little - to make use of our autoattack buffs a special group should be build, which is too much of a trouble, and even then we won't come close to what a mystic of fury can bring-hence some personal dps as a compensation would be nice.
Another thing is, different priests bring different amount of "dps" to the group/raid. Mystics, for example, buff others so much, I would not be surprised if they add like 100 trillion of dps to the raid, if not more! Inqusitor brings little - to make use of our autoattack buffs a special group should be build, which is too much of a trouble, and even then we won't come close to what a mystic of fury can bring-hence some personal dps as a compensation would be nice.
No t1 dps can heal or ward anything like a priest, rangers and wizards don't have heals/wards, sins have a couple small heals, lock has one heal that comes as a nerf to their dps if they change it to heal the grp, BL have zero heals unless they go spiritual in which case they have small heals/wards but less dps than a priest! So nope they don't have them really, what u will see on heal parse from t1 classes is basically their solo ward and field medic, both of which all non fighters can have (fighters don't get the solo ward)
And no mystics do not add 100t or more to the raid, yes they add some dps but not that level (it's only a grp buff afterall)
Inquisitors need work on their buffs to make them relevant not just slap them with massive dps to compensate, based on ur analysis of mystics you would u want Inquisitors to add 100t dps to the raid from personal dps? So they keep up with the mystics values you quote.
Solo wise all healers need a boost, this could easily be done by boosting the solo buff you get in zones.
All the rest needs to be sorted out by making buffs relevant not boost healer dps to t1 levels to make up for the missing buffs!
And no mystics do not add 100t or more to the raid, yes they add some dps but not that level (it's only a grp buff afterall)
Inquisitors need work on their buffs to make them relevant not just slap them with massive dps to compensate, based on ur analysis of mystics you would u want Inquisitors to add 100t dps to the raid from personal dps? So they keep up with the mystics values you quote.
Solo wise all healers need a boost, this could easily be done by boosting the solo buff you get in zones.
All the rest needs to be sorted out by making buffs relevant not boost healer dps to t1 levels to make up for the missing buffs!
Why even query someone's raid experience? Maybe you have limited experience or maybe your experience is just wrong? Maybe I have 1000 times your experience but it doesn't really matter who has what experience does it?
So you want to hit 100t in a raid? Which is what you are basically asking for by quoting the mystics increase the raid dps by 100t and Inquisitors don't, do u not see this would not be right? Healer classes should primarily be able to heal, then bolster their allies and then do dps, if this happens everyone wins as the raid stays alive, people are buffed and then they contribute some dps. If an Inquisitor cannot heal as well as a mystic, cannot buff as well as mystic then why would they be taken over a t1 dps unless they do t1 dps numbers?
But if an Inquisitor has their healing improved and their buffs improved then that makes an Inquisitor a much better proposition to have in raid, improvements to their buffs would also improve their dps, let's say they give Inquisitors a buff that add 2k cb/cboc and 100 fervor/foc your own dps would go up, the raid dps would go up, if they then add some wards to your reactive we are now looking at a Inquisitors that can heal really well and provide some good buffs and dps.
We need to separate the need for solo dps from heroic/raid as they are 2 completely separate things, healers need solo dps increase but this does not mean they need massive boosts to heroic/raid dps. Some healers need improvements to there heals, some need improvements to their buffs, but they don't need massive damage buffs outside of solo zones, they need buffs to their other abilities instead.
So you want to hit 100t in a raid? Which is what you are basically asking for by quoting the mystics increase the raid dps by 100t and Inquisitors don't, do u not see this would not be right? Healer classes should primarily be able to heal, then bolster their allies and then do dps, if this happens everyone wins as the raid stays alive, people are buffed and then they contribute some dps. If an Inquisitor cannot heal as well as a mystic, cannot buff as well as mystic then why would they be taken over a t1 dps unless they do t1 dps numbers?
But if an Inquisitor has their healing improved and their buffs improved then that makes an Inquisitor a much better proposition to have in raid, improvements to their buffs would also improve their dps, let's say they give Inquisitors a buff that add 2k cb/cboc and 100 fervor/foc your own dps would go up, the raid dps would go up, if they then add some wards to your reactive we are now looking at a Inquisitors that can heal really well and provide some good buffs and dps.
We need to separate the need for solo dps from heroic/raid as they are 2 completely separate things, healers need solo dps increase but this does not mean they need massive boosts to heroic/raid dps. Some healers need improvements to there heals, some need improvements to their buffs, but they don't need massive damage buffs outside of solo zones, they need buffs to their other abilities instead.
axxis32
Member
To be honest, inquisitors DPS is fine as it is. It doesn't matter if your enemy dies in 1sec or 5mins.. you WILL win. You will outlast the enemy thanks to the heals.
I have stated it many times before, way back when when I was still raiding in KoS, as inquis, I once made a joke about Inquisitors being better Paladins than Paladins, and during a raid, our raid tank wanted me to prove it. So, I tanked the raid. I had to rely on auto-attack and heal hate and I did well... very well infact. No deaths, lost aggro once (stupid wizards and their nukes) retook aggro and then we finished the raid. (TLE can do this, live cannot)
The CA's are just a bonus, a great bonus mind you. But you need to max them out asap in order to get decent dps. You also have 2 more CA's from the cleric line (7 in total, on top of my head). Invest in the Punishment AA's too (adds more damage, and heals)
On live? I sneeze in the general direction of a (overland) mob and they die. In instances (solo) I have to sneeze AND hit them on the head once or twice. Inquisitors are infact very solo friendly, since they can outlast the mobs they are fighting! (and basicly never run out of power, even with powerdrains)
I have stated it many times before, way back when when I was still raiding in KoS, as inquis, I once made a joke about Inquisitors being better Paladins than Paladins, and during a raid, our raid tank wanted me to prove it. So, I tanked the raid. I had to rely on auto-attack and heal hate and I did well... very well infact. No deaths, lost aggro once (stupid wizards and their nukes) retook aggro and then we finished the raid. (TLE can do this, live cannot)
The CA's are just a bonus, a great bonus mind you. But you need to max them out asap in order to get decent dps. You also have 2 more CA's from the cleric line (7 in total, on top of my head). Invest in the Punishment AA's too (adds more damage, and heals)
On live? I sneeze in the general direction of a (overland) mob and they die. In instances (solo) I have to sneeze AND hit them on the head once or twice. Inquisitors are infact very solo friendly, since they can outlast the mobs they are fighting! (and basicly never run out of power, even with powerdrains)
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Homogeneous classes are boring, giving everyone the same kit is not the way to do things, class fantasy should matter. But classes should be equally viable at the same time. And equally convenient to play. Right now, as it stands, it is not the case. Increasing the damage of CAs would be one step in the right direction.
axxis32
Member
In that case, I highly suggest playing a dps oriented class instead. Like I mentioned, inquisitors do have enough dps for a healer. Perhaps you are not utilizing all the tools a inquisitor has?
I'm not sure how giving a healer more dps avoids this? You will still be the same class, with the same lack of wards/DR, the same lack of buffs just with larger numbers on your combat arts. Wouldn't you want to have some variety rather then just big numbers?
Would a raid leader take a Inquisitor that can do 20t dps over a mystic that according to you adds 100t and has wards? How much dps would need to be added to make inquisitors worth having and at what point would the inquisitor become so overpowered that it would be nonsense?
Do inquisitors need a buff to their combat arts yes they could do with a small increase, do they need work on heals and utility yes they really need work.
axxis32
Member
Oh, I also forgot to mention that ... the CA's do scale with your level, our damage spells do not. Our CA's do more damage than our spells, are faster to "cast" and less prone to misses (resist), most of our CA's also have DoT's on them too. (More so than the spells they "replace"). Also one other benefit is that you do not need to upgrade those CA's every 10 levels (or so, depending on expansion) ... that is 5 spells you never ever need to spend money on to upgrade. (although I use 2 spells (purifying flame or sanctifying flames and the AA spell Divine Demonstration (cleric, wisdom), mainly for pulling mobs, if they survive)
There are many things about Inquisitors that are not where they should be but CA's is not one of them. (Buffs, debuffs, healing etc needs a boost). I am specced for soloing and doing great having no problems whatsoever. Ofcourse, I am constantly in our offensive stance (more CA damage, less healing). Perhaps you are in healing stance? (less CA damage, more healing) (stances are unlocked in AA, shadows ... Litany of Combat (boosts damage) and then the stances is shadows -> persecution (offensive) / Redemtion of Faith (healing).
In order to get Max out of Melee as Inquis, you need to spend AA's to properly set it up. Feel free to check up on my AA setup ... it's not the best or maybe not even optimal, but it works great for me for what I want out of it.
There are many things about Inquisitors that are not where they should be but CA's is not one of them. (Buffs, debuffs, healing etc needs a boost). I am specced for soloing and doing great having no problems whatsoever. Ofcourse, I am constantly in our offensive stance (more CA damage, less healing). Perhaps you are in healing stance? (less CA damage, more healing) (stances are unlocked in AA, shadows ... Litany of Combat (boosts damage) and then the stances is shadows -> persecution (offensive) / Redemtion of Faith (healing).
In order to get Max out of Melee as Inquis, you need to spend AA's to properly set it up. Feel free to check up on my AA setup ... it's not the best or maybe not even optimal, but it works great for me for what I want out of it.
The thread is not about me or the way I play. It is a suggestion to developers to fix some things. The damage of combat arts , and dps in general, of an Inquisitor (as well as of the other healers) needs a serious boost and overhaul. You might not see it doing overland content or solo instances (though some people do have issues there as well) but it is vivid in anything remotely more complex.
You guys need a boost in heals for sure, not DPS. I'll be happy to upload screenshots of mystic CAs vs spells. Our spells actually hit for more than the CAs.
But as folks have clearly pointed out in the past, it balances. Mystics have better healing and should have bad DPS, inquis has better DPS and less healing. 
Agreed, but I'm referring to the CAs.
But given the cast and recast on Polar Fire and Rabies, they make soloing quite dull. On beta, in the new zone, I have to get 4-5 spells off to kill a group. Over there, Etherflash and Implosion are my BFFs. The Inq, with their CAs, can do it quicker.
What I don't understand is how much dps do people want? We see people saying their healer does 5t in a raid but what would the ideal amount be? 10t 20t 30t? It's really difficult to know what the right amount should be, if it's to much then all the other classes will want a boost if it's to little then it won't be noticeable.
I think to get any traction someone would need to go through their logs and look at ability A that currently does say 300b dps and think OK let's double that ability and so on working through each ability to identify the actual boost needed and what the final result is, so the amount needed could be quantified as a multiplier or % upgrade for each ability. Is it a flat % increase needed for all abilities or do some need a bigger boost than others?
I've always been one to say that healers should get their healing sorted first, then the buffs they bring and then the dps, dps from a healer in raid is a bonus but absolutely should not be required to do content. Solo is completely different though.
I think to get any traction someone would need to go through their logs and look at ability A that currently does say 300b dps and think OK let's double that ability and so on working through each ability to identify the actual boost needed and what the final result is, so the amount needed could be quantified as a multiplier or % upgrade for each ability. Is it a flat % increase needed for all abilities or do some need a bigger boost than others?
I've always been one to say that healers should get their healing sorted first, then the buffs they bring and then the dps, dps from a healer in raid is a bonus but absolutely should not be required to do content. Solo is completely different though.
Imo it should be the following way: take the best dps class/classes, give him the best possible buff and gear. Make the result the starting point. Other dps classes should be within 10% difference from that. Support classes should do 60-70% of that iconic class. Tanks - 40-50%, Healers 20-30%. As it stands right now, Warden and Channeler are almost there, the other priests are completely off.