Infusion (AA) - remove the trigger

[Sharakari]

At one time, Infusion had no cap on how often it could trigger. It was nerfed to add a trigger limitation of .2 to 1.2 seconds. The damage amount proc'd now makes minimal difference on current Quadrillion DPS fights. Suggest reverting the spell back to no trigger. This would be inline with how the Warden's Natural Infusion Epic works with no trigger limitations (which also procs off incoming damage to group members and can't be resisted!!). The Fury's Infusion only procs on beneficial spells and doesn't need to be limited. If the trigger can't be removed then set it at a flat .5 seconds to trigger. This would give the Fury back some DPS to close the ridiculous gap created by the Warden's Epic buff.

 

[Chath]

The impression I was under is that triggers are partially there for technical reasons, such as preventing stress on servers by processing massive numbers of events. I think in a lot of cases this has made abilities far too weak, and damage should be boosted significantly to compensate, with infusion being an example of that. So tldr - if the trigger can't be modified, boost the damage up quite a bit to compensate for it.

 

[Sharakari]

The impression I was under is that triggers are partially there for technical reasons, such as preventing stress on servers by processing massive numbers of events. I think in a lot of cases this has made abilities far too weak, and damage should be boosted significantly to compensate, with infusion being an example of that. So tldr - if the trigger can't be modified, boost the damage up quite a bit to compensate for it.

I agree. I try to stay away from asking for more damage on a lot of spells because it seems to get backlash....but I'd be fine with your suggestion as well.

 

[Corro]

At one time, Infusion had no cap on how often it could trigger. It was nerfed to add a trigger limitation of .2 to 1.2 seconds. The damage amount proc'd now makes minimal difference on current Quadrillion DPS fights. Suggest reverting the spell back to no trigger. This would be inline with how the Warden's Natural Infusion Epic works with no trigger limitations (which also procs off incoming damage to group members and can't be resisted!!). The Fury's Infusion only procs on beneficial spells and doesn't need to be limited. If the trigger can't be removed then set it at a flat .5 seconds to trigger. This would give the Fury back some DPS to close the ridiculous gap created by the Warden's Epic buff.

Agreed, it's kind of silly because the nerf from this came really from TLE and there's no reason in my opinion for this to carry over.

 

[Sedient]

Agree. Furies have the potential to solo heal but the entire premise of the fury is to be the premier DPS priest class. They are way down the list when groups are looking for a solo healer so they shouldn't get nerfs like this. And while you're at it.. for the love of god... reduce the cast time on cure curse.

 

[ultraviolet]

I've posted quite a lot on fury / warden infusion.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/druids-infusion-on-varsoon.608078/#post-6720803

Please review. I could retype it all, but really I broke it down quite clearly. Was it too strong, as I say in the thread, yes. So the nerf that happened dropped something that was strong to less than 10% of its previous power.

Simply going back to the original version would be a great solution.

The original version was, cast a group heal on 6 targets - get 6 single target hits assigned randomly, and those hits were small pokes. So 6 people healed = 6 small pokes. This original version came with the drawback of 6 times power is used. So the infusing fury needed to be mindful of power or have an illy babysitting them since their power drained quite quickly.

The version that was too strong that evoked the nerf was this version: cast a group heal on 6 targets - get 6 aoe hits with no target limit - fury is only charged power for 6 infusion triggers. If there is 15 mobs (farm status raid trash clearing for a top guild) that is 90 dmg triggers, for only the power cost of 6. Of course the straw that broke the camel's back was when enterprising furies would cast porcupine offensively. 24 friendly targets, with 15 mobs, for a total of 360 damage triggers.

The words of a previous author "making less damage events" is a meritorious concern.


Consider this option:
One way this could be addressed is to convert infusion into a raid-wide buff for a single target. When that player is healed or receives any positive spellcast from the fury themselves, that triggers a single blue aoe from that player. This goes thematically with the idea of the name of the ability. You are infusing strength, and that creates a static damage outpouring against that player's foes. The damage should be scaled appropriately to make the AA endline something worth taking.

 

[Sharakari]

I've posted quite a lot on fury / warden infusion.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/druids-infusion-on-varsoon.608078/#post-6720803

Please review. I could retype it all, but really I broke it down quite clearly. Was it too strong, as I say in the thread, yes. So the nerf that happened dropped something that was strong to less than 10% of its previous power.

Simply going back to the original version would be a great solution.

The original version was, cast a group heal on 6 targets - get 6 single target hits assigned randomly, and those hits were small pokes. So 6 people healed = 6 small pokes. This original version came with the drawback of 6 times power is used. So the infusing fury needed to be mindful of power or have an illy babysitting them since their power drained quite quickly.

The version that was too strong that evoked the nerf was this version: cast a group heal on 6 targets - get 6 aoe hits with no target limit - fury is only charged power for 6 infusion triggers. If there is 15 mobs (farm status raid trash clearing for a top guild) that is 90 dmg triggers, for only the power cost of 6. Of course the straw that broke the camel's back was when enterprising furies would cast porcupine offensively. 24 friendly targets, with 15 mobs, for a total of 360 damage triggers.

The words of a previous author "making less damage events" is a meritorious concern.


Consider this option:
One way this could be addressed is to convert infusion into a raid-wide buff for a single target. When that player is healed or receives any positive spellcast from the fury themselves, that triggers a single blue aoe from that player. This goes thematically with the idea of the name of the ability. You are infusing strength, and that creates a static damage outpouring against that player's foes. The damage should be scaled appropriately to make the AA endline something worth taking.

I'd like to say that I read your whole linked post but as soon as I read the title, I stopped. I mean, I agree with some of the things you've said here but the fact that this spell was nerfed game wide because of a problem on TLE was a huge misstep by Daybreak. NOTHING should be nerfed game wide by ANYTHING happening on a TLE server...period...end of story. If there's a problem on TLE that can't be fixed for just TLE, then you'll have to live with it like we did when that xpac was actually live.

Infusion was NOT a problem in Live when it was nerfed. It was always just a really good spell but not OPd in the current game landscape of bloated mob stats. It was beaten with the nerf bat into a shell of what it was....and it should be restored to the way it was on live.

Sorry if this post seems to have some vitriol behind it but the fact it got nerfed over TLE still riles me pretty good.

 

[Sedient]

I'd like to say that I read your whole linked post but as soon as I read the title, I stopped. I mean, I agree with some of the things you've said here but the fact that this spell was nerfed game wide because of a problem on TLE was a huge misstep by Daybreak. NOTHING should be nerfed game wide by ANYTHING happening on a TLE server...period...end of story. If there's a problem on TLE that can't be fixed for just TLE, then you'll have to live with it like we did when that xpac was actually live.

Infusion was NOT a problem in Live when it was nerfed. It was always just a really good spell but not OPd in the current game landscape of bloated mob stats. It was beaten with the nerf bat into a shell of what it was....and it should be restored to the way it was on live.

Sorry if this post seems to have some vitriol behind it but the fact it got nerfed over TLE still riles me pretty good.

Exactly

 

[Sharakari]

@Caith why didn't this one get consideration? It was a significant nerf when it was changed for a problem on TLE. Please consider reverting this spell back to it's former glory. Would prefer the trigger get removed but even if it was a flat .5 seconds with a damage increase, that would be better than what it is today. Oh, and make it non-resistible. I have anywhere from a 50%-80% hit rate on this spell.

 

[Radi]

Agree. Furies have the potential to solo heal but the entire premise of the fury is to be the premier DPS priest class. They are way down the list when groups are looking for a solo healer so they shouldn't get nerfs like this. And while you're at it.. for the love of god... reduce the cast time on cure curse.

That is, Fury can solo-heal but why should they be the first DPS in this kind ? It seems to me that any healer should be able to do this - easier or more difficult for someone.
Otherwise, what about Mystic (and both shamans in general) ?
They have no potential for DPS except for an autoattack and only with good party. And they haven't many groupcures and group preventions.
If we're talking about buffs/DPS ratio - Fury has them too.
Anyway, I agree that "Natural Infusion" should be relatively nerf because any kind of "one-button-dps" is an evil that destroy the class balace.

 

[Galorif]

That is, Fury can solo-heal but why should they be the first DPS in this kind ? It seems to me that any healer should be able to do this - easier or more difficult for someone.
Otherwise, what about Mystic (and both shamans in general) ?
They have no potential for DPS except for an autoattack and only with good party. And they haven't many groupcures and group preventions.
If we're talking about buffs/DPS ratio - Fury has them too.
Anyway, I agree that "Natural Infusion" should be relatively nerf because any kind of "one-button-dps" is an evil that destroy the class balace.

Furies were made as a dps first healer. Mystics were a debuffing healer.
Period.
Mystics solo healing everything from t4 raids to solo, fury? Possibly given the right group makeup.

 

[Galorif]

That is, Fury can solo-heal but why should they be the first DPS in this kind ? It seems to me that any healer should be able to do this - easier or more difficult for someone.
Otherwise, what about Mystic (and both shamans in general) ?
They have no potential for DPS except for an autoattack and only with good party. And they haven't many groupcures and group preventions.
If we're talking about buffs/DPS ratio - Fury has them too.
Anyway, I agree that "Natural Infusion" should be relatively nerf because any kind of "one-button-dps" is an evil that destroy the class balace.

You also don't understand, Furies are only brought into raid for their raid wide cure, and lucidity which gives a single target 70 fervor and fervor overcap (which 9/10 times we don't benefit from cause dps reasons)

 

[Radi]

You also don't understand, Furies are only brought into raid for their raid wide cure, and lucidity which gives a single target 70 fervor and fervor overcap (which 9/10 times we don't benefit from cause dps reasons)

Maybe you don't understand something, but it's much easier for druids to heal - raids or groups on most nameds.
Events with so many DoTs with terrible BT easier for shamans - are you serious ? Druids have 3 cures.
I can also solo heal a lot of things. But any other healer can do the same and often it's much easier (reasons above).

Cast a ward and go to sleep ? No and never been like this. But now shamans only have 2-3 emergency abilities to resist wards bleeding.
Is that more fair ? Why then is there no penalty for blocking HoT or reactive tick ? It's the same for us.

"Mystics were a debuffing healer" - When ? About a hundred years ago ? It's just ridiculous now.
In addition, you probably confused it with Defiler because Mystic was conceived as attacking healer too. Just look at his buffs and abilities.
But by results - both of them don't have useful debuffs.
That (fixing our debuffs) would help a little bit.... but things are still here.

Here it is proposed to create another imbalance dps healer instead of only gently Warden myth nerf.

 

[Clintsat]

Maybe you don't understand something, but it's much easier for druids to heal - raids or groups on most nameds.

If your druids are having an easier time solo healing raids/heroics than your shaman, it's a player skill issue.

 

[Radi]

If your druids are having an easier time solo healing raids/heroics than your shaman, it's a player skill issue.

And the bleeding wards has nothing to do with it - right ?
Please write to me how do you heal 2-3 packs of different type DoTs playing as a shaman ? I can compare this in raids\heroics\hard.
I agree that Fury's self-dps doesn't match the Warden's level, but it is necessary to solve the problems of archetype generally rather than create a new imbalanced healer class.
Fury also has a lot of useful buffs and utilities and you need to take this into account.

 

[Priority]

And the bleeding wards has nothing to do with it - right ?
Please write to me how do you heal 2-3 packs of different type DoTs playing as a shaman ? I can compare this in raids\heroics\hard.
I agree that Fury's self-dps doesn't match the Warden's level, but it is necessary to solve the problems of archetype generally rather than create a new imbalanced healer class.
Fury also has a lot of useful buffs and utilities and you need to take this into account.

and shamans dont, yea, our bad; we forget how disenfranchised shamans are regarding their desirability

 

[Larcain]

And the bleeding wards has nothing to do with it - right ?
Please write to me how do you heal 2-3 packs of different type DoTs playing as a shaman ? I can compare this in raids\heroics\hard.
I agree that Fury's self-dps doesn't match the Warden's level, but it is necessary to solve the problems of archetype generally rather than create a new imbalanced healer class.
Fury also has a lot of useful buffs and utilities and you need to take this into account.

This has been a recording

 

[Sedient]

That is, Fury can solo-heal but why should they be the first DPS in this kind ? It seems to me that any healer should be able to do this - easier or more difficult for someone.
Otherwise, what about Mystic (and both shamans in general) ?
They have no potential for DPS except for an autoattack and only with good party. And they haven't many groupcures and group preventions.
If we're talking about buffs/DPS ratio - Fury has them too.
Anyway, I agree that "Natural Infusion" should be relatively nerf because any kind of "one-button-dps" is an evil that destroy the class balace.

I don't think you understand. Furies were conceived from the beginning of the game to be the PREMIER DPS Healer. It's would be ok if the Fury wasn't that great at solo healing and be relegated to backup healer who's job is to do massive damage and ensure everything gets cured but at this point they are not great at healing and can be easily beaten on the DPS parse by other healers.

So it begs the question "why do the devs want the fury in the game?" Raid-wide cure? just give it to someone else. Lucidity? give it to someone else. two spells are not a reason to have an entire class be mediocre at everything else including their stated founding premise.

no. the answer is to make the fury blow every other healing class away in dps and keep it difficult to be a solo healer so that a clear reason to exist returns and a clear challenge exists for furies. The best of the best furies will be adequate solo healers and still top the healer DPS chart.

If you want Warden's and Furies to be able to put up similiar DPS numbers then sure, maintain Wardens as scout based and Furies Mage based.

 

[Galorif]

And the bleeding wards has nothing to do with it - right ?
Please write to me how do you heal 2-3 packs of different type DoTs playing as a shaman ? I can compare this in raids\heroics\hard.
I agree that Fury's self-dps doesn't match the Warden's level, but it is necessary to solve the problems of archetype generally rather than create a new imbalanced healer class.
Fury also has a lot of useful buffs and utilities and you need to take this into account.

We as furies only give five luciditys, no other buffs that are worth mentioning, then we have a bunch of heals damage and cures, we normally don't get a lucidity if we run the 5k pot/wis int buffs, only the dps do.
Skill issue indeed... in exception of cures

 

[Larcain]

We as furies only give five luciditys, no other buffs that are worth mentioning, then we have a bunch of heals damage and cures, we normally don't get a lucidity if we run the 5k pot/wis int buffs, only the dps do.
Skill issue indeed... in exception of cures

you do realize that youre arguing with someone who doesnt think being the meta is good enough?