after review a few raid parses the damage needs to be increased x5 to x10 to keep up with other class procs. the damage like other bard abilities has not scaled well over time. for it being the dirges damage buff there feels no impact for even running it as it does minimal damage
Dirge - Dead Calm
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This is not true. Maybe you have never used it, but it has been used, it increases the parse of the group and there are classes that have equivalent spells. They have to increase the damage to make it equivalent to that of other classes.
I know what it does and its small fries.. even if they up the damage, you've most likely already played out all ur concentration slots. I usually solo mana feed so have mana song run and if not hate is going on a scout, etc, etc. Which buff do you drop to run dead calm and what's it doing for your group?
Well, if you don't use it, why do you care if people who do use it want to match it to the other classes? Support the topics you consider appropriate and stop sabotaging the ones you don't care about. Let's see if this time you succeed.
I did add to it and say remove the concentration slot. You and I disagree on a lot because you primarily are out to make a bard more about dps than support as seen on many other spots. I didn't hijack it and simply made a statement and then asked you what you run as a dirge. Pretty easy, remember, remove concentration slot.. plus.. good thing.. no sabotage.. read between the lines.
Chath
Active member
Part of what makes bards interesting has been requiring them to choose which buffs to run with a limited number of concentration slots and I don't think it's a good idea to undermine that - it's better to make the spell more appealing by greatly increasing its damage. Virtually all procs that aren't cast by sorcerers are pretty underpowered right now and could use a lot of help.
Yes, I get that 100%, which is again why I asked which most dirges are running, plus I changed from thaum to etherlist and recap uses a concentration slot. No matter what they boost the damage by, if you're the only dirge in raid you're running nox symphony, percussion of stone, Rousing tune, seething sonata on dps scout in group and then depends for the last spot. I of course run recap. If i'm solo mana feeding, which is often, then sonata gets dropped and mana song goes on. If you're not a etherialist, then sonota goes back on dps. If you don't have to solo power feed then sure or if you have a second dirge in raid running nox symphony then sure. So again it varies, but in the end no matter what they add to it, it really depends on raid set up and even group for that matter. This could just be one of those magic buffs we get that doesnt' take concentration slot, add a little increased damage to it and call it a day.
so just a bit of information from my point of view as i know buffs and things differ depending on raid/group set up. i am in the MT group and have a pretty static group set up. it is either SK or guard, coercer, swash, sin, mystic, dirge.
the static buffs i run are:
rousing
dead calm
sonata (sadly on a scout)
songsters luck
recap - would be the one i rotate if i wasnt an etherealist
the buffs i rotate in are
nox
mettle
ballad
nox - obviously is situation you run it when you need the ward/mit. i would say of the 3 it stays up over the others but i know we rotate from 2 to 3 dirges in raid so if i notice it up i dont even run it.
mettle - while it does provide more mit now it really isnt anything special. i run it when i know there isnt nox or if the other dirges are running nox. but it has the same issue was percussion of stone as there is very little to no reason to run it. we have had 3 different mystics solo heal the mt group and never had to run defensive buffs as they aren’t really needed. the increase in survival for the tank/group goes unnoticed.
percussion of stone - now for this buff... man i dont even know where to begin with it as i want to make its own thread but i just dont know how to recommend it to be useful. it needs changes badly. it only triggers off slash/pierce or crush abilities and then only absorbs physical damage but most dont do that these days. a majority of the damage is surge and if it happens to line up that it does physical cool but looking through act a lot arent any more. i pulled a fight that did have it and the tank only took 300 hits of physical at a 15% proc rate you are looking at saving 45 hits of those but wait refer to the previous point. i have had 3 different mystics solo heal the mt group and never needed the extra survival. i dont think i have run it all xpac there just isnt a reasn to run it
but the main issue and reason for the tread is dead calm. this is our offensive buff which does not bring as much as putting a hate buff intended for tanks holding agro on a scout. this buff is intended to sacrifice some survivability of other buffs for more damage for the group by running it. currently nothing requires the xtra mit/survival outside a fight or 2 for nox song. dead calm while it brings little is still better than running buffs that arent needed for other fights. the damage does not scale well and isnt on par with other classes and it needs a buff. removing concentration would be fine and cool, would let us run more buffs but remove the point of concentration slots. our buffs should be choices and matter for what we run. currently even that isnt the case as there really isnt a point to run alot of buffs. dead calm does need a buff in damage to keep on par with other class it should matter as it is our damage/offensive buff and currently it is not impactful
the static buffs i run are:
rousing
dead calm
sonata (sadly on a scout)
songsters luck
recap - would be the one i rotate if i wasnt an etherealist
the buffs i rotate in are
nox
mettle
ballad
nox - obviously is situation you run it when you need the ward/mit. i would say of the 3 it stays up over the others but i know we rotate from 2 to 3 dirges in raid so if i notice it up i dont even run it.
mettle - while it does provide more mit now it really isnt anything special. i run it when i know there isnt nox or if the other dirges are running nox. but it has the same issue was percussion of stone as there is very little to no reason to run it. we have had 3 different mystics solo heal the mt group and never had to run defensive buffs as they aren’t really needed. the increase in survival for the tank/group goes unnoticed.
percussion of stone - now for this buff... man i dont even know where to begin with it as i want to make its own thread but i just dont know how to recommend it to be useful. it needs changes badly. it only triggers off slash/pierce or crush abilities and then only absorbs physical damage but most dont do that these days. a majority of the damage is surge and if it happens to line up that it does physical cool but looking through act a lot arent any more. i pulled a fight that did have it and the tank only took 300 hits of physical at a 15% proc rate you are looking at saving 45 hits of those but wait refer to the previous point. i have had 3 different mystics solo heal the mt group and never needed the extra survival. i dont think i have run it all xpac there just isnt a reasn to run it
but the main issue and reason for the tread is dead calm. this is our offensive buff which does not bring as much as putting a hate buff intended for tanks holding agro on a scout. this buff is intended to sacrifice some survivability of other buffs for more damage for the group by running it. currently nothing requires the xtra mit/survival outside a fight or 2 for nox song. dead calm while it brings little is still better than running buffs that arent needed for other fights. the damage does not scale well and isnt on par with other classes and it needs a buff. removing concentration would be fine and cool, would let us run more buffs but remove the point of concentration slots. our buffs should be choices and matter for what we run. currently even that isnt the case as there really isnt a point to run alot of buffs. dead calm does need a buff in damage to keep on par with other class it should matter as it is our damage/offensive buff and currently it is not impactful
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Not true.
Just compare dead calm with other similar spells. Divine Inspiration of the paladins does 12k damage, while Dead calm does 2.7k. Both are group buffs and, although the paladin's only casts every 0.5 to 3.5 sec, dead calm only runs 12% (12%!) of the combat arts. At level 100 tier, Divine Inspiration casts about twice per minute (1.6 per minute!!) and does 2.6k, while Dead calm does 1k with the regular 12%. So we have lost significant DPS in the last 20 levels. I would just ask to rebalance the bards back to the level they were before.
You always say that I want the Bards to do like a T1, it's not true: I don't ask that the bards do more damage than before, I ask that they do the damage they did before. Furthermore, I've been playing a bard since 2006, and we've never been so bad.
Regarding concentration, my ascensions don't use concentration so they are always the class ones and I use them depending on the type of damage the boss does. It doesn't make sense to have Noxious Symphony or Percussion of Stone on a lot of them now that developers made sure the damage type can't be healed by Noxious. Also, I get used to grouping with an Illusionist, so I can play without Bria's.
So Dead Calm is a good option, as it always had been when I wanted the group to increase its DPS.
Look, I get it. We can't compare ourselves to other classes that have "similar" spells. No one will bring a paladin over a dirge for their divine inspiration. I know that was an example, but every single raid force wants four bards, usually 2 and 2 depending on your makeup.
Bards sucked for a while, bards were good for a while, bards were bad for a while, and then good for a while. BOL bard dps was way way higher than it should be because of "broke" autoattack. If you're looking for pre BOL then sure, maybe boost us a bit, but most people are looking for BOL bard dps which again was off a broken component.
I used to thaum but we have plenty of ADC now so swapped by to etherealist for recap for our assassin, so I get having the extra buff, so sure. Boost it a little but if buffs were the same across all 25 classes there would be no need to have 25 classes.
Noxious symphony is never run for nox heal... its run for physical heal with the aas, which is what makes it so overpowered. The devs have changed some mobs this expac to not be physical, but there are still physical mobs this expac, about half and half tbh.
Usually I'm solo mana feeding as we're short a chanter on most nights, some nights we have four, but most only 3. It just is what it is I suppose.
They need to fix auto attack again, but make it to where you need to time it again, because Caith said it's free damage. It's not free if people can't do it right, but that's another conversation again.
So sure, add some damage to it, but again, it doesn't have to be near the same as another buff because theirs is better.. in no world will most other classes be taken for their "Proc" buff over bards. I still think they should remove the concentration slot requirement from this, especially since at least one ascension class requires a concentration slot for a solo buff.
some posts asking for 1000cb and 800 CBOC buffs, etc. We wonder why some of our posts are not taken seriously is all I'm saying.
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I'd look inward wondering why posts are not getting taken seriously. This post and others go in a thousand directions with a wall of text that has 10% to do with the thread at hand.
And, I just had to chuckle, this is more than one post now you've taken a shot at a suggestion you got refuted from, why are you so upset about it?
/shrug,
Not upset at all lol. I just hate seeing every single class ask for one thing and that is dps and then wonder why caith takes no one seriously on the forums. I did ask for things to get changed in the old forums for a few different classes, and those did get changed. I would enjoy seeing some things changed, which is again why I said take a concentration slot off this and sure maybe boost it a little bit. Some of the items stated.. increased damage by 10x it's current state on multiple posts simply gets looked at by the dev and brushed over. I say be realistic about things and stay with-in the guide lines of what you're class is supposed to be. This particular is a bard and we bring plenty of support to the group without this changed being boosted to be in inline with another class proc. We aren't that other class lol.
I'm glad you got a chuckle out of it though cause at least something will be gotten from it
