Personal Preferences are not Bugs

[Maergoth]

A few loud voices is hardly the server pop as a whole, clamoring for your changes, Maergoth. There's your answer to all your complaining right there. No one wants the population turned into snipers and irritable gamers waiting far too long for respawns. And XP rate tuning should not be done locked at level 12. I realize you have all the time in the world to keep harping on all this needlessly, but there are many posters with less time on their hands taking time from testing, to tell you to let it be.

You are struggling with order of operations here, and you haven't read enough of the conversation to contribute to it, by the sounds of it.

The XP mix is off, between quests and monsters. It's not classic, and that is easily observable.
The Rate at which you gain XP is too high if it continues into the 20s, which all signs say it will.
Nobody is arguing against taking action on rate after we see what the 20s are like.
But the mix on the island is causing problems for people who skip the boat or don't realize the quests are massively nerfed, or collections massively buffed. See: "I don't remember having to grind monsters on noob island for hours" which actually SLOWS DOWN the level 1-10 experience for many people.

Advocating for what is classic on a server where the priority is what is classic is very valid. So is advocating that you want it to be un-classic because you want it to be easier! But those are two entirely different conversations for two entirely different times.

The order of operations is: Make it classic, then vote on what should change.

 

[Rescorla]

A few loud voices is hardly the server pop as a whole, clamoring for your ideas, Maergoth. There's your answer to all your complaining right there. No one wants the population turned into snipers and irritable gamers waiting far too long for respawns, never mind with the full weight of a red load launch server. And XP rate tuning should not be done locked at level 12. I realize you have all the time in the world to keep harping on all this needlessly, but there are many posters with less time on their hands taking time from testing, to tell you to let it be.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what is wrong with someone correctly pointing out when the dev's design intent, which is explicitly spelled out in black and white, is not working as intended.

 

[marcmann2]

If the vast majority wants a quicker leveling rate, then that will be something the devs make a poll on. But the baseline that we should be aiming for -right now- is the xp rates from back in 2006.

 

[Zenji]

A few loud voices is hardly the server pop as a whole, clamoring for your ideas, Maergoth. There's your answer to all your complaining right there. No one wants the population turned into snipers and irritable gamers waiting far too long for respawns, never mind with the full weight of a red load launch server. And XP rate tuning should not be done locked at level 12. I realize you have all the time in the world to keep harping on all this needlessly, but there are many posters with less time on their hands taking time from testing, to tell you to let it be.

What he is posting about for XP rates and respawn aren't "his ideas". He is just advocating for more 2006 like. Which is what the intended design of the server is.

 

[Zhevally]

No.

A bug is a coding error in a program that prevents it from working properly. The accumulation of experience is working properly. The devs' ability to tweak xp gain is also working properly. It is not a bug.

What you're referencing is a problem with values. You don't like the current values. And you're posting your complaint in the bug forum.


Thank you.

It comes back to what is working properly. Back to my point we don't know if it is or not. We have no clue if its intended for stuff to now work differently than it did in 2006. If a quest is supposed to give 2% of a level as it did in 2006 but is instead giving 5 levels(a ridiculous example) then that could be a bug. If we report it as a bug, a dev might look at it and be like ehh nah that ones not actually bug. But there's nothing wrong with reporting it.
Just because you may not like it if something gets changed to match the 2006 build, when it is not currently there, does not make it preference instead of a bug. You are allowed to have a preference for something to not match 2006 - that is totally fine and valid. You are allowed to ask for things to be different or adjusted, once again a fine ask. But none of that changes that anything not matching the 2006 build is a potential bug to be fixed, regardless of our personal preferences on the subject.

 

[89Doilies]

What he is posting about for XP rates and respawn aren't "his ideas". He is just advocating for more 2006 like. Which is what the intended design of the server is.

The server design from an era during which he hasn't a single personal anecdote, and for which he is depending on forum posts from the era to describe? K.

The point isn't that a tiny, squeaky minority is trying to suggest their personal preferences matter. Those voices were instrumental in making the previous TLE the bastions of nostalgic longevity that they continue to be, and they should be protected at all costs.

The point is that you should be squeaky in the right place. A red name's post magically appeared in the original thread overnight confirming this.

Eat your vegetables.

Thank you.

 

[89Doilies]

View attachment 716

What's amazing is how everyone else missed all the times Caith mentioned reporting those features as bugs in the bug section. Glad you found them!

It's amazing the lengths to which some will go to make sure they get heard.

 

[Maergoth]

What's amazing is how everyone else missed all the times Caith mentioned reporting those features as bugs in the bug section. Glad you found them!

It's amazing the lengths to which some will go to make sure they get heard.

That's exactly what was said. It's a bug if it doesn't fit the desired server setup. The desired server setup is 2006-accurate.
Caith also said to tell everyone splitting hairs for bugs versus feedback to "****", but I'm not going to go that far

 

[Zenji]

The server design from an era during which he hasn't a single personal anecdote, and for which he is depending on forum posts from the era to describe?

The quick dismissal of anecdotal evidence when there is no objectively verifiable evidence to base decisions seems quite foolish.

The point isn't that a tiny, squeaky minority is trying to suggest their personal preferences matter.

You are correct there, but who belongs to that squeaky minority is where you are mistaken.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

 

[89Doilies]

That's exactly what was said. I

That looks like a discord capture to me. I know it's easy to confuse discord with the forums-- both are on the computer.

I know it can also be hard to remember which conversations were private and which ones were public.

Anyway, this isn't something another private message to Caith won't clear up, amirite?

Squeak, Squeak, Squeak!

Thank you.

 

[Maergoth]

That looks like a discord capture to me. I know it's easy to confuse discord with the forums-- both are on the computer.

I know it can also be hard to remember which conversations were private and which ones were public.

Anyway, this isn't something another private message to Caith won't clear up, amirite?

Squeak, Squeak, Squeak!

Thank you.

This was said in the Beta discord, to everyone present. Your inability to participate doesn't make that an unofficial means of communication.

I can hear you physically floundering because your white-knight attempt to police what is or isn't a bug "for the sake of the hard working developers" backfired hilariously, getting your own thread moved instead.

The fact is, when you're asking for feedback and bugs and every gray area in between, you don't want people gatekeeping valuable information for brownie points. I might not be the savior I think I am, but you are most certainly not the savior you think you are.

 

[89Doilies]

Caith also said to tell everyone splitting hairs for bugs versus feedback to "****", but I'm not going to go that far

This part was not said in the discord beta.

I'll give you a while to calm down before coming back to this thread. You're starting to lose focus, and I want you at your fighting weight.

Thank you.

 

[Maergoth]

This part was not said in the discord beta.

I'll give you a while to calm down before coming back to this thread. You're starting to lose focus, and I want you at your fighting weight.

Thank you.

Yes, it was.

 

[Riaak]

A few loud voices is hardly the server pop as a whole, clamoring for your ideas, Maergoth. There's your answer to all your complaining right there. No one wants the population turned into snipers and irritable gamers waiting far too long for respawns, never mind with the full weight of a red load launch server. And XP rate tuning should not be done locked at level 12. I realize you have all the time in the world to keep harping on all this needlessly, but there are many posters with less time on their hands taking time from testing, to tell you to let it be.

Couldn't agree more, there are far too many opinions being posted in the bugs forums.

 

[89Doilies]

The first line of Caith's post clearly distinguishes Bugs from Feedback lol.

Also, nobody is trying to shut down feedback. We're trying to get you to put it in the right place. Bugs and feedback two different things in Caith's own words.

You keep conflating the two so you can keep on a-squeakin'.

Pretty obvious to everyone now though I think.

Thank you.

 

[Zenji]

Couldn't agree more, there are far too many opinions being posted in the bugs forums.

We absolutely agree on this.
Unfortunately we part at what is a bug and what is an opinion.
For example, I think making a post that XP or respawns are not even close to what they were in 2006 is a bug report, when that is a clear target of the server.
And you think making a bug report post that you don't want to see implemented makes it an opinion.

 

[Maergoth]

The first line of Caith's post clearly distinguishes Bugs from Feedback lol.

Also, nobody is trying to shut down feedback. We're trying to get you to put it in the right place. Bugs and feedback two different things in Caith's own words.

You keep conflating the two so you can keep on a-squeakin'.

Pretty obvious to everyone now though I think.

Thank you.

The entire conversation started because I posted what I considered a minor anachronism outside the bug forums, and it got moved into the bug forums.

You created this post in response to me posting major anachronisms inside the bug forum, and it got moved out.

Anachronisms are considered bugs, according to the previous screenshot I posted.

You will do anything for a W, even if it's not coming. I'll let you do it, since you're just covering your eyes at this point. ciao<3

 

[Mountbatten]

All I have learned from this thread is that OP has never worked in software development, and there's also a bunch of people out there who seem irked at the idea of a 2006-era server actually behaving like a 2006-era server.

 

[89Doilies]

The entire conversation started because I posted what I considered a minor anachronism outside the bug forums, and it got moved into the bug forums.

You created this post in response to me posting major anachronisms inside the bug forum, and it got moved out.

Anachronisms are considered bugs, according to the previous screenshot I posted.

You will do anything for a W, even if it's not coming. I'll let you do it, since you're just covering your eyes at this point. ciao<3

False.

All I have learned from this thread is that OP has never worked in software development, and there's also a bunch of people out there who seem irked at the idea of a 2006-era server actually behaving like a 2006-era server.

Gratz on learning something!

Thank you.

 

[Ilovecows]

A few loud voices is hardly the server pop as a whole, clamoring for your ideas, Maergoth. There's your answer to all your complaining right there. No one wants the population turned into snipers and irritable gamers waiting far too long for respawns, never mind with the full weight of a red load launch server. And XP rate tuning should not be done locked at level 12. I realize you have all the time in the world to keep harping on all this needlessly, but there are many posters with less time on their hands taking time from testing, to tell you to let it be.

What makes you so confident that you're not the noisy minority clamoring for an unpopular change? Caith's comment is very unambiguous; the game should be as close to the 2006 version of Everquest 2 as possible, unless there's a majority in favor of changes as determined by a vote. Maergoth has demonstrated that xp gains as they currently stand do not match how they were in 2006, and as a result should be adjusted. Respawn timers are pretty clearly not a match for how they were in 2006, either. Anyone playing the beta can see that.

You're free to clamor for whatever changes you want to see made to the game, but you're not some "representative of the Silent Majority" as you seem to think you are. This is clearly the sort of thing that Caith is saying should be put to a vote to determine if there are enough people, like you, wanting things to be different than they were in 2006.