Paladins and SKs really not wanted?

Beyoncia

Member
All I'll say that every raiding guild I was in during the first several years had a paladin and an SK in it. Granted, the main tank was pretty much always a guardian, but then again he had three healers with him as well.

I'd suggest not to listed to rumours too much, and definitely avoid succumbing to "meta mind deformation". Play whatever you like and find the most fun. It is a role play game after all, is it not?
 

Magdaddy

Active member
All I'll say that every raiding guild I was in during the first several years had a paladin and an SK in it. Granted, the main tank was pretty much always a guardian, but then again he had three healers with him as well.

I'd suggest not to listed to rumours too much, and definitely avoid succumbing to "meta mind deformation". Play whatever you like and find the most fun. It is a role play game after all, is it not?
1) That evidence is anecdotal and how serious were the guilds you were in? If somebody is asking what the OPTIMAL tank(s) is/are, the last answer they are looking for is "play what you enjoy" even though for some reason people always feel compelled to give that as an answer. If they were interested in just playing what they enjoy, they'd have never asked the question in the first place, obviously.

2) Crusaders up until KoS took a clear back seat to warriors and it will likely be that way on this server as well. Nobody is going out of their way to recruit a Crusader to actually tank any content that's not a joke.
 

Saint Sora

Active member
I'd suggest not to listed to rumours too much, and definitely avoid succumbing to "meta mind deformation". Play whatever you like and find the most fun. It is a role play game after all, is it not?
In general that is good advice, however, I don't think it is here. If he is considering raiding on a class that will not be desired or used by almost every raid guild in a role that is the most difficult to get into a raid guild as, I think it's a good idea to inform him of it and give an explanation as to why. Grinding and gearing a tank to be raid ready is going to be quite a commitment on this server. It's better to be able to make informed decisions when investing a lot of time into something.
 

Beyoncia

Member
It is much more harmful to play a character that you do not like, it will always end the same, no matter how well the class performs at the moment. Tastes and preferences can change, evolve -sure- but overall the gameplay should matter, not the "flavour of the month."

Crusaders have peculiarities, they are not as tough as warriors, have less hp and mitigation, but crusaders can tank. That is the only thing that matters, the rest is up to the group/raid: used wisely crusaders are assets, as pretty much every class. More importantly, it is about people, not the classes. Each of the "serious" guilds I was in was more a family then most casual guilds. And yes, the guilds were "serious", very serious. My last hc guild has an npc in the game named after it, you can also see my character in several official videos, btw. Sadly in her high elf form, I should have race-changed to a halfling earlier:)

I do agree though, that people are very picky nowdays, tainted with the "meta" preaching and it might be hard to get in such guilds. Back then, we just played.
 

Magdaddy

Active member
Each of the "serious" guilds I was in was more a family then most casual guilds. And yes, the guilds were "serious", very serious. My last hc guild has an npc in the game named after it, you can also see my character in several official videos, btw.
🤦
 

Ludra

New member
Just going to add my thoughts here as someone who did actively raid back then on a paladin. I will state my favorite class has always been paladin.

That being said there are a LOT of flaws to the paladin class in a MT/OT raid role before EoF AA's come into play. As some stated you can even argue Myth was required for us to really come into our own. I will say it seemed to be like I had to put in twice the effort of a warrior to get 80% of the tanking ability in a raid setting. Really not just me, but my whole group did as well just due to how much better the guard/zerk class is equipped to deal with raid tanking. I rarely was promoted to any type of tank role in raids. Grouping was a whole different experience, and is in my thoughts where paladin's shine. In raids I was simply an agro sponge for one of the dps groups most times. Amends the biggest threat, and call it a day until someone needed an e-heal. Sigil when the call for all out burn was made so that if agro was pulled, and it many times was to be honest, I took the brunt of the hits instead of our dps groups being wiped out. Other than that I was on rez duty. As a paladin I did not have near the utility/support of any other supporting class as I was more defense focused. At least SK's, and brawlers if it was single target for the most part, have some real damage ability if compared to a paladin.

Take what I say with a grain of salt. Not all experiences were like mine, but I do feel more than a few were.

Adding an edit here as I noticed I got a tad bit away from what I was trying to share of my experiences as a raid paladin.

I want to point out paladins have a very useful role in a raid if played to their agro stealing/management strong points. A raid with dead DPS groups does not get very far. A well placed/played paladin can nearly single handedly make it so overly zealous dps groups do not end up blood stains on the ground. That being said though this thread is more about paladins in an MT/OT role, and not so much about how powerful of a utility a well played paladin can be to a raid force. Sadly while we arguably have some of the strongest agro control abilities in the game if used correctly, especially if amends/sigil are back to pre nerf day's, raid tanking is rarely about just how much agro you can manage like group tanking is. It is more so about how much of a single hit you can mitigate which is the one thing paladin's just lack at in spades when it comes to the numbers raid encounters can dish out. I remember our raid forces having to wait for the tank group to burn down like 5-10% of a bosses hp in order to generate enough hate for the dps to start in unless they had hate links on the MT simply because agro control was that low of a priority. If the tank had agro issues just give him more time/stop dps for a bit. The damage he could absorb made up for it unless that tank was just beyond help with agro generation. Some guilds ran with an assassin, or i think it was wizard? in the MT group just for a hate link/transfer ability so that dps groups could start in quicker if there tank was a big enough damage soaker. This was because it was more important to have the damage mitigation skills/raw hp than it was to have the raw agro holding ability as a raid tank. You only needed enough agro to hold down the most important mob. All others could/would be handled by the OT's. This sadly is the crux of the issue with the paladin class when tanking in a raid. If you do not have the mitigation skills/raw HP to survive a hit no amount of agro management will save your raid force from the coming wipe. The only way to get around that is to have some seriously good healers on your side with a healthy dose of luck for avoiding wards/reactives running out just before that big damage hit you as a paladin. This puts a huge strain on your healers. Can it be done. Yes absolutely. The question though is should it be done. In most cases the answer is simply no. While tanks can be hard to find in group content the same can not be said for raid content. For every paladin that wants to tank a raid there is likely already a guard/zerker in line. Most raids will take that guard/zerker over you any day of the week unless you are well known to them as an outstanding raid capable tank. Even then most times it is just the OT position. That is simply because OT's needs to trade a bit of the damage mitigation for agro snapping ability to peel mobs from the MT for the raid to focus on burning them down.

I know this is rather long winded, but I felt this should be shared so you/others can make an informed decision as to what to play. No one wants to sink hours into a class just to find out they picked wrong for what they wanted to do. Paladin is a great class if played to the strengths it has. Make no mistake there are many strengths to playing a paladin. If you try to force it into doing something it really was not designed to do though you are in for a world of pain, and aggravation. This is the class that I love the most. I sincerely hope many others can enjoy it as I did all those years ago.
 
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sindahive

New member
I was going to roll a Paladin but this has me second guessing hard. Am I really not going to be wanted for content? Should I just go Guardian/Berserker? Guardian was dreadfully boring for me back then.
 

Vlahkmaak

Member
I was going to roll a Paladin but this has me second guessing hard. Am I really not going to be wanted for content? Should I just go Guardian/Berserker? Guardian was dreadfully boring for me back then.
You will be just fine for all non batphone serious hc raiding with a crusader/sk. I have played every tank (except monk/zerker) from launch, and they all do fine with regular group content. If you really want to raid - just form your own raid/guild around the class you want to play. There will be plenty of people/alts looking to raid who didn't get into <UbberestGuild> or whatever the top guild will be. You might spend more time on a target without a meta set up raid (lots of experience here), but it is still rewarding if the people you play with are not darches.

If you want to compete for a MT/OT in "seriously only apply guilds" roll a warrior but "non serious" sub/optimal guilds can clear content too.
 
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