Charm revisited

[Praetorian]

One of the class defining abilities that makes Coercer's Unique is Charm. Possess Essence is basically an Illusionist Pet spell variation with out much gameplay impact potential. Charm hasnt been used for several years for Coercers and I think its a spell that could get some looking into for situational uses both Solo/Heroic and Raid. There are also several old AA abilties that could be used to boost Charm's capabilities.

Charm used to be used during raids as part of the mechanics against certain bosses where lesser mobs had to be charmed to gain buffs, or use particular abilities against said bosses. They werent necessarily used for DPS only mechanics. DPS and Utility benefits should be considered based on what a person is Charming. Coercers used to have to look at a NPC's buff list to see what kind of mobs they wanted to Charm and which ones to skip at any given time. Charm could still be super viable as an option for SOLO and HEROIC zones as well as long as the choice is there within the zone and its worth it. The pet window might have to be adjusted or allowed to command ANY pet or implement a toggle to be able to command Essences and Charmed pets differently. Right now the pet window can only affect two pets by having them respond in "auto attack".

But I think Charm with some tweaks could provide some much needed variety into Coercers once again.
If you like this idea please hit "like" and "up vote it" THANKS!

 

[Chath]

Charm is still used for CC in a lot of fights where mobs have adds that instantly respawn and gain buffs/stacks from them being up, for example. The issue is that the buffs from having a possessed essence drop, making using charm to actually CC a pretty huge sacrifice for group DPS.

What I'd suggest is that when a possessed essence is dropped, the buff remains but goes inactive, with a tag that says "Requires possessed essence or charmed pet": so it goes active again when you use charm. You would still be able to switch the buff by using possessed essence again on a different type of target, it just wouldn't do anything unless you either have an essence or a charm up.

One of the defining elements of a really good coercer in olden days was their ability to CC, and I'd like to see that restored to some extent without making such large sacrifices to group DPS.

 

[Avarice]

I've been thinking about charm with Chath for a while, because it's both iconic for coercers and an intrinsically fun, unique CC tactic.

What I'd suggest is that when a possessed essence is dropped, the buff remains but goes inactive, with a tag that says "Requires possessed essence or charmed pet": so it goes active again when you use charm. You would still be able to switch the buff by using possessed essence again on a different type of target, it just wouldn't do anything unless you either have an essence or a charm up.

I'd love to see this. Please let a possessed essence's archetype group-buff remain on the Coercer: Divine Essence, Scholar's Essence, Ruffian's Essence, or Brute's Essence. Let those overwrite one another, and disappear when we zone out. And then just add a line requiring that the Coercer have an active pet of either type for buff to work. That way we can cancel the Possessed Pet and use Charm for Fun/CC, while keeping our essential captured essence intact.

 

[Praetorian]

Charm is still used for CC in a lot of fights where mobs have adds that instantly respawn and gain buffs/stacks from them being up, for example. The issue is that the buffs from having a possessed essence drop, making using charm to actually CC a pretty huge sacrifice for group DPS.

What I'd suggest is that when a possessed essence is dropped, the buff remains but goes inactive, with a tag that says "Requires possessed essence or charmed pet": so it goes active again when you use charm. You would still be able to switch the buff by using possessed essence again on a different type of target, it just wouldn't do anything unless you either have an essence or a charm up.

One of the defining elements of a really good coercer in olden days was their ability to CC, and I'd like to see that restored to some extent without making such large sacrifices to group DPS.

Yes, but right now you can have both a Charmed pet and a Possess Essence. THe only thing is Charmed pets do nothing when it comes to buffs or DPS anymore unlike in the past when they did. A coercer back in the day would want a Fury Pet because they nuked and they actually healed. But, charm these days for the last 6 expansions maybe more does nothing. Your characters auto attack does more than a Charmed pets entire output. Charm has become nothing more than a prolonged Mesmerize spell. It needs to be reworked so its a viable DPS and/or Buff option to apply to the coercer or group or an integral part in completing an encounter. Coercers dont really have that "A HA" mechanic that makes them unique against other classes. There should be something that makes Coercers and Illusionist different from each other from a mechanics perspective.

 

[Allumette]

Actually, as of fairly recently, you can no longer have both a PE and a charmed pet at the same time.

 

[Xavion]

maybe just make charmed pets have preset spells/ca's based on class/race that way they are useful and aren't overpowered because they are predetermined to balanced spells/ca's. I mean its a far better option then it just being heres a auto atk turret that isn't doin really anything. could maybe even be 1 spell/ca or even a buff of sort it could cast.

 

[Praetorian]

Actually, as of fairly recently, you can no longer have both a PE and a charmed pet at the same time.

Ah yes, I see that now. Its been awhile since Ive done it. Well, it should be changed back for this. Charmed pets did very little DPS anyways so allowing us to charm specific creatures in order to gain buffs for the group or raid and having the level of Charm affect the level of buffs would be nice.

 

[Praetorian]

Charm is still used for CC in a lot of fights where mobs have adds that instantly respawn and gain buffs/stacks from them being up, for example. The issue is that the buffs from having a possessed essence drop, making using charm to actually CC a pretty huge sacrifice for group DPS.

What I'd suggest is that when a possessed essence is dropped, the buff remains but goes inactive, with a tag that says "Requires possessed essence or charmed pet": so it goes active again when you use charm. You would still be able to switch the buff by using possessed essence again on a different type of target, it just wouldn't do anything unless you either have an essence or a charm up.

One of the defining elements of a really good coercer in olden days was their ability to CC, and I'd like to see that restored to some extent without making such large sacrifices to group DPS.

No Possess Essence does not need to be changed. This is making Charm work alongside Possess Essence. Its a completely different mechanic. If you want Possess Essence to behave differently please make a post about it.

 

[Praetorian]

I've been thinking about charm with Chath for a while, because it's both iconic for coercers and an intrinsically fun, unique CC tactic.

I'd love to see this. Please let a possessed essence's archetype group-buff remain on the Coercer: Divine Essence, Scholar's Essence, Ruffian's Essence, or Brute's Essence. Let those overwrite one another, and disappear when we zone out. And then just add a line requiring that the Coercer have an active pet of either type for buff to work. That way we can cancel the Possessed Pet and use Charm for Fun/CC, while keeping our essential captured essence intact.

You would never WANT to drop possess essence, its good dps and it has direct modifications from AA's and Epic Spells. Please post changes to Possess Essence in a different thread. This if for changing Charm to work in tandem with Possess Essence.

 

[Chath]

Sure, reverting the change to allow charm to be up at the same time as possess essence works too.

 

[Avarice]

I'd also love for charm & possess essence to be used in tandem again. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but their enforcing the pet limit felt intentional - fixing a bug. Facilitating two combat pets might mean changing the UI and that takes more time because it's an art asset.

So WHILE rethinking the charm problem, I kept dev intentions for the class in mind and thought of time-effective ways to make it work with possessed essence. My first idea was to change both spells, where Charm would make a pet of either variety just based on what we're targeting...then Possess Essence might be remade into a captured group-buff for our pet. But the solution I wrote above seemed easier from a coding standpoint and it still addresses being able to use Charm in battle.

 

[Praetorian]

Right, I dont think of Charm as a DPS spell. I think with mobs these days and how much stat inflation has affected the game... i dont think Charm will ever be useful as a DPS mechanic anymore. But, if it could be used to add "choices" to a player based on the group they are in then Im all for it.
Obviously Charm would probably do a little dps just based on its a pet but the biggest thing would be the angle of it "Helping" your group. Charming a mob in order to acquire a certain buff that only a coercer could provide via Charm would be nice integration into the classes style and playability.

 

[FalconClash]

I have a Coer, but I'm not very good at using her. I dont group, and I find fighting Same-Levels with her difficult, she nearly always almost dies.
I shy away from Charm as I'm paranoid of it breaking. Then she would have to fend off both whatever mob and her pet at the same time.
I made it a point to get her to 67 just so she could learn PE, but that really hasn't helped much when it comes to fighting.

Any improvement, in Charm or PE, that will make solo'ing easier would be welcome.

 

[Xhieron]

So... I'm going to go out on a limb here--and don't come after me; I'm just asking!--but why aren't Coercer mains advocating to revert the pet aggro nerf from back in 2019? As memory serves, part of the basis for the nerf was establishing parity with Illusionists, but it seems like the fix for that would have been to just enable Illy pets to also hold aggro. In the context of this thread's suggestion, a simplified role table for charmed pet stats and abilities seems like an obvious (maybe deceptively so) way to restore utility to the class and also re-enable some skill expression in certain encounters.

To be candid, part of the reason I ask is that (like I imagine lots of folks), playing a Coercer on the Origin TLE with original Charm mechanics is a huge draw for me, and like @FalconClash, soloability is a big deal. A reversion of that nerf would essentially solve my perpetual class decision paralysis.

Maybe somewhere there's a dev (or two or ten) on record about how or why that change may never be reverted, but it seems like one of the great losses to the game over its two decades.

 

[Praetorian]

So... I'm going to go out on a limb here--and don't come after me; I'm just asking!--but why aren't Coercer mains advocating to revert the pet aggro nerf from back in 2019? As memory serves, part of the basis for the nerf was establishing parity with Illusionists, but it seems like the fix for that would have been to just enable Illy pets to also hold aggro. In the context of this thread's suggestion, a simplified role table for charmed pet stats and abilities seems like an obvious (maybe deceptively so) way to restore utility to the class and also re-enable some skill expression in certain encounters.

To be candid, part of the reason I ask is that (like I imagine lots of folks), playing a Coercer on the Origin TLE with original Charm mechanics is a huge draw for me, and like @FalconClash, soloability is a big deal. A reversion of that nerf would essentially solve my perpetual class decision paralysis.

Maybe somewhere there's a dev (or two or ten) on record about how or why that change may never be reverted, but it seems like one of the great losses to the game over its two decades.

Because Solo play doesnt require anything to hold aggro anymore. A Merc is never going to hold aggro against a player character unless script-cheating is added beyond normal gameplay design so its pointless to have pets do it in the same respect. Pets have never been a source of necessary aggro anyways in all of the years I have played a Coercer. Pet's always got one shot, even if you had a Triple-up monster Charm'd it would get destroyed by anything it aggro'd on its own.